So if a property has been an HMO for 10 years, it cannot be enforced against, provided there is no material alteration in its use.

So the intoduction of a new use class cannot be said to be an act of development, and the continuation of the HMO use does not need planning permission.

Perhaps that is why DCLG envisages a fairly small number of additional planning applications.

It will be very fifficult, I feel, for a LPA to enforce against an HMO of, say, 5 years standing.

In both the scenarios I painted the tenant has told me about the family relationships but I have no proof.

The first scenario (The respectable, if large, family) would raise no suspicion however the second (group of migrant east European workers) would and might lead to the matter being referred to the planning office.

How would they decide if a planning application is required? Is there now a burden of proof on landlords to have to demand proof of tenants familial relationships to ensure that they are “a family” and not “an unrelated group of sharers” before letting?

If the purpose of the legislation is to prevent studenification of an area then what criteria would the planning office use in considering an application that was for what was to be the first HMO within half a mile (clearly not an over bearing proportion of HMO’s in the area)? And if a petition was got up and 100 NIMBY’s objected to the application how would that sway their consideration?

To cut to the point the legislation hinges on a definition based on the existence or otherwise of familial relationships but who has the investigative powers or carries the burden of proof?

To take it to its ridiculous extent all Mr Landlord has to say when the planning man calls is “Sharing? No gov those 5 lads they all told me that they are brothers and cousins” what does Mr Planner do then? Can he demand documentary proof of ID and familial relationship? I think not, unless of course 1984 has truly arrived!

Mike

The purpose of HMO planning is not to make your neighbours happy with the occupiers but rather to allow for the control of HMOs so that a single area does not become inundated with them. Whether it actually does this is, of course, a matter for debate.

I do not think the new planning legislation provides any threat to my activities as all were established HMO’s before the April 6th deadline.

A number of interesting questions cross my mind.

1/ at the head of this thead you state that:-
“Class C3 has been amended to cover single households of up to six occupiers.

A new class C4 has been created which will cover HMOs of up to six people.

Properties with more than six occupiers will continue to be outside any planning category.”

So, a single household be it up to and including 6 or or more than 6 needs no planning consent. And a new HMO of 3,4,5 or 6 sharers will need change of use to C4. But what about where more thann 6 have been sharing, these “continue to be outside any planning category” what does that mean?

2/ I let on a room by room basis on individual AST’s. Tenants come and tenants go, there is never such a thing as a renewal. Can I continue on this basis without ever applying for C4?

3/ I have another larger house (6 bed plus potential dependant relative accommodation) which was let to a family but when they vacated I refurbished it and since February it has been let to a number of Latvian imigrant workers, the number increasing as individual rooms became finished. I now have 2 couples, 2 singles and a child, 2 more children arrive in June.

At the risk of getting long winded let me paint 2 alternative letting scenarios for this house.

A/ I let to a Dr and Mrs Smith. They have 4 children. Graciously they have allowed the boyfriend of thier eldest daughter to cohabit with her and at the request of thier frends who have emigrated they have agreed to accommodate thier godson for 2 years whilst he finishes his education. In addittion Mrs Smiths mother and partner of several years (not married)also live with them. Mrs smith is assisted in her houshold duties by a live in au-pair.
My house is ideal for them if the use the dining room as a bedroom they can easily accomodate 3 couples and 4 singles, 10 people in total. I let to Dr & Mrs Smith on an AST, they will occupy the house initially with their 2 youngest children, the au-pair returns from Sweden i 3 months, another daughter and the godson come home from Uni in 4 months, the eldest daughter and boyfrend return from thier gap year in 6 months and the elderly parent and partner ae selling thier place and will probably arrive in 9 months. Because Dr Smith is a good negotiator and good tenants for such a large house are hard to come by, I have done him a deal wherebuy the rent increases in direct proportion to the number of people occupying the house, knowing that eventually it will be full and I will get a good rent. Is this a single household or an HMO for planning and/or licencing (3 storys)?

B/ I let to a Latvian Mr Riga and his mother who are over here looking for work and to establish a base to bring the rest of his family to. After 2 months his wife and child arrive shortly followed by his 2 brothers a wife and friend. Some months later his brother brings over his 2 children. My house is ideal for them if the use the dining room as a bedroom they can easily accomodate 2 couples and 6 singles, 10 people in total. I let to Mr & Mrs Riga on an AST Because he is a good negotiator and good tenants for such a large house are hard to come by, I have done him a deal wherebut the rent increases in direct proportion to the number of people occupying the house, knowing that eventually it will be full and I will get a good rent. Is this a single household or an HMO for planning and/or licencing (3 storys)?

In both cases (the first imaginary, the second real) what authority do I have to demand proof of the relationship of the various occupannts in order to satisfy the “single household” test, what authority would the planning office have to ask to see such proof.

Ironically the first “household” is comprised of many people who are not related through blood or marriage and yet the first scenario (repectable doctor and extended family) would cause much less suspicion and objection from neighbours than the second (group of migrant workers)

With imagination I suspect that this legislation can be rendered unenforacable and a good job too.

Does anyone envisage getting planning permission for an HMO? Come to think of it has anyone got it yet?

Sorry to be long winded but I needed to illustrate my point!

Mike

I have a house which I purchased from Nottingham University in Sept 2006.
I used to let it out to 3 sharers. When there AST’s ended in September 2009 they moved out and I started work on the house, changing it to a three storey, 6 bed house.
The building work was finished and signed off by building control on the 3rd May 2010.
My question is do I send in an application for a lawfull development certificate for a proposed use or do I need to apply for planning? I hope I can use the lawfull developmemt because the planners are not giving permission for new HMO’s in Nottingham.
What do you think?
Regards,
David.

You can sign a new contract and it will be binding on both you and the tenants but the local planning authority will be able to take enforcement action against you for a breach of planning consent.

I recently put in a planning application for a Change of Use on one of my HMO properties. I have just got notice that the council are refusing my application. Can they do this if the property was a HMO prior to 6th April 2010 when the new planning legislation came into force.

What will happen with regard to my tenants – do I have to evict them?

I do plan on appealing – the current tenancies expire on 31/7/10. Can I legally sign new contract with HMO planning approval

See the posts on here from 16 March.

Painsmith believe there may be scope to challenge the position if planning was refused.

There does not appear to be direct guidance on the matter.