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	<title>Comments for Painsmith Landlord and Tenant Blog</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk</link>
	<description>A practitioners landlord and tenant law blog from PainSmith Solicitors</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 14:26:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on What duty does a Landlord have if the tenant leaves their belongings in the property once they have vacated? by Jamie</title>
		<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2012/01/23/what-duty-does-a-landlord-have-if-the-tenant-leaves-their-belongings-in-the-property-once-they-have-vacated/#comment-1590</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jamie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 14:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/?p=1109#comment-1590</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Peter Smith.
I would agree that this is one area where you sometimes have to assess the risk and take a commercial decision.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Peter Smith.<br />
I would agree that this is one area where you sometimes have to assess the risk and take a commercial decision.</p>
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		<title>Comment on oooooooooooooh more options! by Chris</title>
		<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2012/01/31/oooooooooooooh-more-options/#comment-1589</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/?p=1120#comment-1589</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[DepositGuard is the special discount option RLA members. 

Non RLA members can still join TDS for Landlords at a slightly higher price, but also with no joining fee and protection for the life of the tenancy instead of an annual renewal arrangement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DepositGuard is the special discount option RLA members. </p>
<p>Non RLA members can still join TDS for Landlords at a slightly higher price, but also with no joining fee and protection for the life of the tenancy instead of an annual renewal arrangement.</p>
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		<title>Comment on oooooooooooooh more options! by Jamie</title>
		<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2012/01/31/oooooooooooooh-more-options/#comment-1583</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jamie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 13:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/?p=1120#comment-1583</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is no joining fee for Deposit Guard but you have to be a member of RLA which costs £75 to join. Therefore, unless you&#039;re already a member of RLA it&#039;s not really any cheaper to register a single deposit than using My Deposits (in fact it&#039;s more expensive if you&#039;re deposit is under £300). Having said that,  you do receive additional benefits by being a member of RLA.

It&#039;s good for landlords to have another option though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no joining fee for Deposit Guard but you have to be a member of RLA which costs £75 to join. Therefore, unless you&#8217;re already a member of RLA it&#8217;s not really any cheaper to register a single deposit than using My Deposits (in fact it&#8217;s more expensive if you&#8217;re deposit is under £300). Having said that,  you do receive additional benefits by being a member of RLA.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s good for landlords to have another option though.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What duty does a Landlord have if the tenant leaves their belongings in the property once they have vacated? by PainSmith</title>
		<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2012/01/23/what-duty-does-a-landlord-have-if-the-tenant-leaves-their-belongings-in-the-property-once-they-have-vacated/#comment-1575</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PainSmith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/?p=1109#comment-1575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What duty does a Landlord have if the tenant leaves their belongings in the property once they have vacated? by EarnshawKay-Khangura</title>
		<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2012/01/23/what-duty-does-a-landlord-have-if-the-tenant-leaves-their-belongings-in-the-property-once-they-have-vacated/#comment-1564</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EarnshawKay-Khangura]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/?p=1109#comment-1564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What would be the implications of a tenant leaving their belongings (or part of) in the garden?  Would the same apply as above?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What would be the implications of a tenant leaving their belongings (or part of) in the garden?  Would the same apply as above?</p>
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		<title>Comment on What duty does a Landlord have if the tenant leaves their belongings in the property once they have vacated? by Peter Smith</title>
		<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2012/01/23/what-duty-does-a-landlord-have-if-the-tenant-leaves-their-belongings-in-the-property-once-they-have-vacated/#comment-1563</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/?p=1109#comment-1563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All this is typically unreal legislation when applied to tenancies. How on earth is a landlord expected to store bulky furniture, quite apart from the legal hurdles? The actual cost is loss of rent because another tenant cannot move in. Most tenants leaving stuff are normally in arrears anyway so the LL is going to be lumbered with yet more losses whatever he/she does.

My guess is therefore that most LL&#039;s faced with this dilemma simply get rid of the stuff and if necessary deny that it was left behind.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All this is typically unreal legislation when applied to tenancies. How on earth is a landlord expected to store bulky furniture, quite apart from the legal hurdles? The actual cost is loss of rent because another tenant cannot move in. Most tenants leaving stuff are normally in arrears anyway so the LL is going to be lumbered with yet more losses whatever he/she does.</p>
<p>My guess is therefore that most LL&#8217;s faced with this dilemma simply get rid of the stuff and if necessary deny that it was left behind.</p>
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		<title>Comment on All very frustrating, but what are the options?! by PainSmith</title>
		<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2012/01/18/all-very-frustrating-but-what-are-the-options/#comment-1561</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PainSmith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 20:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/?p=1106#comment-1561</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is not true that overseas landlords can only use DPS, one of the other schemes does take overseas landlords. 

DPS has a clause which allows them to change their terms which are them applicable when issued no matter when the deposit was registered.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not true that overseas landlords can only use DPS, one of the other schemes does take overseas landlords. </p>
<p>DPS has a clause which allows them to change their terms which are them applicable when issued no matter when the deposit was registered.</p>
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		<title>Comment on All very frustrating, but what are the options?! by jp</title>
		<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2012/01/18/all-very-frustrating-but-what-are-the-options/#comment-1560</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 10:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/?p=1106#comment-1560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In response to the last comment, unfortunately If landlords live outside the UK they have to use DPS.

So far as DPS&#039;s terms and conditions are concerned, their latest version (December 2011) is version number 18. When a new version is issued they do not inform landlords or tenants. Thus as terms and conditions may change during a tenancy, which version applies - the one which was current when the deposit was protected (and which formed part of Prescribed Information given to the tenant) or any later versions?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to the last comment, unfortunately If landlords live outside the UK they have to use DPS.</p>
<p>So far as DPS&#8217;s terms and conditions are concerned, their latest version (December 2011) is version number 18. When a new version is issued they do not inform landlords or tenants. Thus as terms and conditions may change during a tenancy, which version applies &#8211; the one which was current when the deposit was protected (and which formed part of Prescribed Information given to the tenant) or any later versions?</p>
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		<title>Comment on To take Possession or not to take Possession by PainSmith</title>
		<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2011/04/11/to-take-possession-or-not-to-take-possession/#comment-1556</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PainSmith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 15:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/?p=760#comment-1556</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No I am afraid not, but then this would be a defence based on a reasonable belief that the property had been abandoned.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No I am afraid not, but then this would be a defence based on a reasonable belief that the property had been abandoned.</p>
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		<title>Comment on All very frustrating, but what are the options?! by R.DaBora</title>
		<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2012/01/18/all-very-frustrating-but-what-are-the-options/#comment-1554</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[R.DaBora]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/?p=1106#comment-1554</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you Painsmith for this informative blog. Consequently this is provides a compelling reason for Landlords to pay a small fee to use My&#124;Deposits instead of the DPS.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Painsmith for this informative blog. Consequently this is provides a compelling reason for Landlords to pay a small fee to use My|Deposits instead of the DPS.</p>
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		<title>Comment on To take Possession or not to take Possession by Jamie</title>
		<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2011/04/11/to-take-possession-or-not-to-take-possession/#comment-1553</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jamie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 10:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/?p=760#comment-1553</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is there any case law which prove the usefulness (or otherwise) of abandonment notices as a defence against unlawful eviction?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there any case law which prove the usefulness (or otherwise) of abandonment notices as a defence against unlawful eviction?</p>
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		<title>Comment on All very frustrating, but what are the options?! by Richard Foreman</title>
		<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2012/01/18/all-very-frustrating-but-what-are-the-options/#comment-1552</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Foreman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/?p=1106#comment-1552</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The DPS clearly need to amend Rule 29(a). We have a client (landlord) with an Order for Possession and a cost award of £23,000 against a defaulting tenant and the DPS are refusing to release the deposit on the strength of the Order. They are expecting the landlord to incur further costs and wasted time in trying to have the Court alter the judgement in order to satisfy Rule 29 (a) and it is unlikly the Court will oblige.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The DPS clearly need to amend Rule 29(a). We have a client (landlord) with an Order for Possession and a cost award of £23,000 against a defaulting tenant and the DPS are refusing to release the deposit on the strength of the Order. They are expecting the landlord to incur further costs and wasted time in trying to have the Court alter the judgement in order to satisfy Rule 29 (a) and it is unlikly the Court will oblige.</p>
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		<title>Comment on All very frustrating, but what are the options?! by ontological_shock</title>
		<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2012/01/18/all-very-frustrating-but-what-are-the-options/#comment-1550</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ontological_shock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/?p=1106#comment-1550</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that the DPS refusing to accept a court order as sufficient evidence that the money is owed to the landlord is farcical. However, I concur with the court refusing to comply with the DPS&#039;s requirements if it chooses to; why should the court bow down to a private party&#039;s administrative rules? 

But this is just one aspect of a wider problem; that of the three schemes&#039; administrative rules and how they relate (or don&#039;t) to the purpose and principle of the statutory requirement for deposit protection. For example, MyDeposits (a.k.a. Tenancy Deposit Solutions Ltd) will &#039;unprotect&#039; a deposit if a landlord goes bankrupt, or if he fails to &#039;reprotect&#039; if the fixed term is renewed (but not, without any apparent logic, if it is replaced by a statutory periodic tenancy). 

A deposit, once accepted by a scheme as protected, should remain protected, regardless of any subsequent shenanigans by the landlord etc. It should not be the case that the landlord must (sometimes repeatedly) negotiate a minefield of administrative rules in order to ensure that it remains protected. 

I presume (hope) that there must be some requirements that the schemes are legally obliged to adhere to; but whatever they are, I suspect they haven&#039;t been thought through very clearly (rather like the Chapter 4 HA2004).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that the DPS refusing to accept a court order as sufficient evidence that the money is owed to the landlord is farcical. However, I concur with the court refusing to comply with the DPS&#8217;s requirements if it chooses to; why should the court bow down to a private party&#8217;s administrative rules? </p>
<p>But this is just one aspect of a wider problem; that of the three schemes&#8217; administrative rules and how they relate (or don&#8217;t) to the purpose and principle of the statutory requirement for deposit protection. For example, MyDeposits (a.k.a. Tenancy Deposit Solutions Ltd) will &#8216;unprotect&#8217; a deposit if a landlord goes bankrupt, or if he fails to &#8216;reprotect&#8217; if the fixed term is renewed (but not, without any apparent logic, if it is replaced by a statutory periodic tenancy). </p>
<p>A deposit, once accepted by a scheme as protected, should remain protected, regardless of any subsequent shenanigans by the landlord etc. It should not be the case that the landlord must (sometimes repeatedly) negotiate a minefield of administrative rules in order to ensure that it remains protected. </p>
<p>I presume (hope) that there must be some requirements that the schemes are legally obliged to adhere to; but whatever they are, I suspect they haven&#8217;t been thought through very clearly (rather like the Chapter 4 HA2004).</p>
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		<title>Comment on All very frustrating, but what are the options?! by Tessa Shepperson</title>
		<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2012/01/18/all-very-frustrating-but-what-are-the-options/#comment-1549</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tessa Shepperson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/?p=1106#comment-1549</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[An excellent and interesting post.  I would mention however that the problem is not entirely new - we had quite a long discussion about it on the Landlord Law Blog in September 2009 which has comments from Kevin Firth of the DPS.  

Anyone interested can read it here http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2009/09/16/dps-tenant-with-ccj-unable-to-claim-back-tenancy-deposit/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An excellent and interesting post.  I would mention however that the problem is not entirely new &#8211; we had quite a long discussion about it on the Landlord Law Blog in September 2009 which has comments from Kevin Firth of the DPS.  </p>
<p>Anyone interested can read it here <a href="http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2009/09/16/dps-tenant-with-ccj-unable-to-claim-back-tenancy-deposit/" rel="nofollow">http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2009/09/16/dps-tenant-with-ccj-unable-to-claim-back-tenancy-deposit/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Can the freeholder recover costs incurred in pursuing me at the LVT as service charge? by PainSmith</title>
		<link>http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2011/12/13/can-the-freeholder-recover-costs-incurred-in-pursuing-me-at-the-lvt-as-service-charge/#comment-1547</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PainSmith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 10:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/?p=1059#comment-1547</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for your comment.
 
Many leases allow the recovery of costs of recovering service charges as a service charge expense themselves.  As with all things relating to service charges the starting point is to look at the lease terms.  A well drafted service charge provision will allow recovery of such costs even where it is a Leaseholder who applies.  Some leases contain provisions which allow costs to be potentially recovered from an offending Leaseholder in total if down to them rather than a general service charge provision but this is unlikely to cover the situation where a Leaseholder challenges the service charge rather than the Freeholder pusuing.
 
It is therefore a question of understanding the lease.  Whilst this may seem unfair on other Leaseholders conversely if the Freeholder incurred costs which they could not recover this could be unfair on them.  If a Freeholder has not adequately managed the property and the challenge has been justified the LVT have powers under Section 20C to limit the recoverability of the costs as a service charge expense.
 
The only real way to stop multiple applications is to ensure that service charges are properly claimed and to try and ensure engagement with the Leaseholders.
 
Hope this answers the questions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your comment.</p>
<p>Many leases allow the recovery of costs of recovering service charges as a service charge expense themselves.  As with all things relating to service charges the starting point is to look at the lease terms.  A well drafted service charge provision will allow recovery of such costs even where it is a Leaseholder who applies.  Some leases contain provisions which allow costs to be potentially recovered from an offending Leaseholder in total if down to them rather than a general service charge provision but this is unlikely to cover the situation where a Leaseholder challenges the service charge rather than the Freeholder pusuing.</p>
<p>It is therefore a question of understanding the lease.  Whilst this may seem unfair on other Leaseholders conversely if the Freeholder incurred costs which they could not recover this could be unfair on them.  If a Freeholder has not adequately managed the property and the challenge has been justified the LVT have powers under Section 20C to limit the recoverability of the costs as a service charge expense.</p>
<p>The only real way to stop multiple applications is to ensure that service charges are properly claimed and to try and ensure engagement with the Leaseholders.</p>
<p>Hope this answers the questions.</p>
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